19 thoughts on “On Parochial School Busing”

1. When you indicate “our willingness to work with them” and “we have offered to manage bus routes,” are you referring to efforts before or after the budget cut? I don’t recall any MMSD collaborative outreach to the diocese community prior to the cut.
   Also, your statement this “is not about “us versus them”” is somewhat difficult to take when your above post is peppered with “us/them” language.

2. How about some feedback regarding the costs to the MMSD if the public school system is forced to absorb 300+ students that will have to go to public school if they cannot attend private schools because of this busing issue? How much will that cost us down the road?

3. I didn’t know, until these budget debates, that parochial students were provided busing. I was surprised to learn that it was required by law. I can understand the parents that feel they should receive the busing for their children. However, it is their choice to not send their children to MMSD schools. An ironic fact, that I haven’t heard yet, in this discussion is that MMSD parents have to pay for busing to MMSD schools. A semester bus pass costs $125.00. That is $250 per school year. These parents receive no assistance with transporting their children. Of course, there are subsidies for low income families. This isn’t fair to MMSD parents either!

4. I’m guessing MMSD would welcome 300+ new students into its system, from wherever they came. School funding in Wisconsin is based on one thing and one thing only — enrollment. Declining/flat enrollment districts cut things, and growing enrollment districts don’t. MMSD operates close to 50 schools and hundreds of classrooms — absording 300-some students (assuming a fairly random distribution of those students, a not unlikely scenario) wouldn’t seem to be that difficult, and maybe not even require additional teachers.

5. So, what you’re saying is that these 300 plus students will attend public schools in lieu of private schools if the MMSD doesn’t provide a bus to their private school? I find that hard to believe. What I do believe is that the MMSD could easily absorb 300 plus students and we’d never know they were there unless they all are in one grade in one or two catchment areas….so the threats ring hollow for me…

6. I would like to provide transportation for parochial private school kids. I think that parents who want a religious education will have conflicts with some of the curriculum in MMSD schools. I don’t want my kids to learn intelligent design any more than religious parents want their kids to learn about evolution (just an example, not all parochial parents feel this way I am sure). I am sure MMSD can absorb all the private school kids who want to come, I don’t want MMSD to make changes in curriculum to accomadate their beliefs.

7. I am a parent who “chose” to send my child to parochial school last year and was suprised to learn that MMSD, by state LAW, was required to provide busing to my elementary aged child. I thought, wow, that’s nice since I”m still paying taxes to support schools, I can still receive transportation. I didn’t ask for it, I didn’t see it as a right of mine, but felt it was a safe and responsible (environmentally) way to get my child to school each day. The bus comes from Fitchburg, with a load of Middle School students being dropped off at Cherokee. Other parochial school kids also get on the bus at Cherokee, after the middle school kids get off and the bus goes another 2 miles to Edgewood. The cost, from what Rite Way tells me, is not substantial since the bus comes from Fitchburg anyway and to do a 4 mile circle is not a huge impact on cost. So, MMSD will discontinue this 4 mile route (twice a day) already imbedded in another route and instead pay the families money (again, required by law) to figure it out on our own.
   I’m ok with canceling the transportation, I’m ok with not getting any MMSD money. My family will figure it out, it’ll be a burden, it will cost more in time off work, transportation by car, paying for afterschool when the younger child used to be able to be bused home to an older sibling…but that is the way it is and not one person I know in this situation is pointing fingers at anyone for “doing this to us” nor do we not have values that lead us to think someone else should be responsible for our childrearing burdens.
   What I do have a problem with is the tone of the discussion-as if “we” parents who “choose” to send our kids to private (and I don’t do it for religious reasons, I have to be honest) should have the audacity to think it’s our “right”. And yes, I do know some families who will have to leave parochial schools if they can’t get busing. But that’s not really the issue here as I see it, it’s the comments about our “choice” to send our kids to parochial, and if since we do, we shouldn’t expect ANYTHING from MMSD for our portion of taxes that go to support PUBLIC schools.
   Jeff is correct, MMSD sent a letter to the Diocese AFTER Art made the budget announcement, stating that busing for parochial schools was on the chopping block- not before. This approach puts everyone affected in a position of “defense”, but the parents I’ve talked to figure we’ll all calmly, and politely work it out, with respect and no “Us” versus “Them” language involved.
   And to Momanonynous, I wouldn’t worry about MMSD changing curriculum to accomodate the needs of students, or their beliefs if in fact there IS an influx of students. I’ve been there, and it didn’t happen in five years, isn’t happening NOW in all the “redesigning”, rather it’s a one size fits all philosophy that led our family to seek other learning opportunities for our children.
   And to David, it would be interesting to me to count up the kids who ride in from Fitchburg (Leopold residence) from each of the parochial schools and talk to the Principal after they’ve decided to move to public about how easy it is to absorb them! Isn’t that most of what everyone is complaining about? On the West Side, MMSD can’t absorb the kids who already attend?

8. What turned this issue into an us vs. them is the fact that MMSD kids and parents have been subjected to budget cuts year after miserable year and therefore don’t have much sympathy for private school families who are now going to have to find alternative transportation after public school families have been taking on the chin for so long. I pay $250 per year per child for unlimited rides on metro bus that is never on time AND only serves my neighborhood for the school routes. I don’t receive a $450 stipend from MMSD in lieu of a yellow bus. We live with the cuts in both services and quality of education because what other choice do we have. The state legislature has made a complete and utter mess of school funding with no relief in sight. If you want to get mad a someone, go talk to your elected officials who masterminded this catastrophe.
   I don’t expect that you shouldn’t receive “anything” from MMSD. I expect that you recognize the dire financial straits of MMSD and like the rest of us, make some concessions and adjustments until which time (if ever) there IS enough money to both educate the public school kids and provide private school bussing. Everyone in the community should be invested in having excellent quality public schools, not just those who attend them.

9. I am a parent of public school children but I hope that future school funding changes will allow the district to again provide yellow bus routes to private school children. I think if I were a parent of a private school child, I would like to hear from the board that if funding becomes available in future budget cycles, this item (yellow bus routes for private schools) will be discussed and an efficient and safe solution will be found. I don’t know if the BOE actually feels this way as this is not stated in Arlene’s letter. Perhaps it is an issue that can be brought up again as MMSD gets closer to an operating budget referendum.

10. May I ask a seemingly obvious question:
    Why aren’t private schools transporting their students to their schools?
    Private schools provide their own teachers, their own after-school programs, their own music programs, and their own sports programs, and a host of other things, all seemingly without the help of public tax dollars. Why is transportation different than any of those programs?
    I think I know the answer…..

11. I don’t get it Ann. I don’t want to get “mad” and am not “mad” at anyone. I want to get away from an us vs. them mentality, which clearly is still a part of your thinking. Private school parents didn’t DO anything to you. It’s not about sympathy-did someone come up to you directly and say that they wanted sympathy? MMSD does not pay for middle and high schoolers to be bused to private schools, only elementary, so EVERYONE pays metro for secondary school kids (or a bus company) out of pocket.
    I am making concessions and adjustments and will continue to do that for at least the next two years and possibly until my children are done with school. I am doing it by choice. I will pay for busing happily. I respect views and opinions of parents of MMSD students, I’ve been one of them and continue to stay abreast of the issues. I think private school parents would like their concerns responded to respectfully as well.
    As far as why private schools don’t offer busing, my guess is mostly feasibility. Either a couple of really long bus routes that go all over the city and outlying communities or bus routes that aren’t feasible because the low numbers riding them. Oh, and I’m sure you are thinking about cost, too! Because, man, it’s time those private school parents finally PAY!

12. I feel for you, Elisabeth. But I also do feel like it is a choice you make to send your children to private schools. I know when we struggled to pay to send me to private schools in MN (the only one of eight children who wanted to go!), we also had to either provide transportation or pay over $500 per year to get me there. It never occurred to me that anyplace would require public school districts to pay for busing private school students until all this came up here in MMSD. I come down “on the side” of the people who ask why on earth MMSD should pay for busing for private school students when the families have to pay $250 per year (or more, if children act like children and occasionally lose a bus pass) for city buses for our own public school children.
    Those city buses are much less safe too. Even though those routes exist only for the schools, they are “not school buses”, so the school apparently feels it cannnot do anything about kids beating up, taunting and spitting on other kids on it or “from” it. But if they were truly city buses, the police would be getting called and troublemakers kicked off at least that bus at that moment. Can you imagine what would happpen to some one who pulled these assaultive behaviors on a standard city bus route?
    Our son has put up with almost daily harrassment on the so-called school-city buses, culminating on several occasions in (among other incidents) his having things thrown at him and being spit on as he gets off, someone slapping him repeatedly on the head while taunting him another time, and one time, someone getting off at his stop and following him home to continue taunting him, and then making physical threats against him. When one child (or group) is “talked to” about this at school, they finally stop, and someone else picks up where they left off. If it were any safer to do so, he would walk home on days he could. He has enough trouble ignoring taunting and/or defending himself in a “closed system” like the bus with a few sympathetic peers nearby who will occasionally speak for him when it gets too bad. We shudder to think of what could happen to him on a walk home. And all this, by the way, in a year that has been “much better as far as buses are concerned” than most recent years, according to the principal at the middle school. The “good kids” hesitate to step in because they don’t want it aimed at them next. The bus drivers are busy driving the bus and trying to ignore the noise; they have no idea what is going on behind their backs.
    Sorry this is so long. I have been storing up this frustration all year. Anyway, this is all happening on buses we have to pay for for our public middle school and high school kids. It makes it hard for me to have a lot of sympathy for private school parents who get paid (per child!) to take their own kids to school. I find it much more appalling that MMSD doesn’t provide yellow buses for the public school kids. And it is not because there is “choice” on which school to send your kids to. That is why some students take the city buses in St Paul – they go to schools of choice and not ALL of them have yellow buses that come through their home area (though many do).

13. All of us public school parents should consider this: We are probably going to referendum in February 2008 to increase the operating budget. It is important to get parochial school parents and their church members to support the referendum and increased taxes. I think they would be more inclined to do that if busing is restored. Maybe yellow bus routes for public middle and high school students is something that should be included in a new operating budget.
    In Wisconsin, paying for parochial school transportation dates back to a 1949 referendum and has been allowed under Wisconsin’s constitution since 1967. It is the law. It is not going to change anytime soon. I encourage public school parents to consider all the people who might vote against a referendum if busing is not at least considered.

14. A few points here….I won’t get paid per child, this has nothing to do with something I expect or think should come before MMSD children’s education. Time for you all to run down to the capitol and change the law! I know some parents who do not take the money. I know that the public bus that middle and high schoolers ride is bad. You all still seem to be missing the point! I said, I will happily pay for busing. It’s not an us vs. them. I made a conscious decision and do not hold you or MMSD responsible for getting my kids safe transportation. I don’t know why the public school does not provide yellow buses for elementary students in MMSD (but I thought they did) which is what they provide for private-again, MS and HS students pay for that transportation. No one wants your sympathy, no one wants to upset the parents of MMSD.
    Oh, and Laura, at this point I will NOT support a referendum for a myriad of reasons, busing isn’t EVEN on the list. Thank you for your history lesson, since I wasn’t even sure of how it all started. BUT IT IS NOT MY FAULT THAT THE STATE REQUIRES THIS, SO START COMPLAINING TO SOMEONE ELSE ABOUT WHAT YOU WANT AND NEED AND NOT WHAT PRIVATE SCHOOL PARENTS SHOULD OR SHOULDN’T GET BECAUSE OF FAIRNESS!
    I always say, Propose the issue, explain the reason it is an issue, and provide SUGGESTIONS how to fix it, not finger pointing and complaining about the need to fix it!

15. When someone states that another group doesn’t deserve something is the definition of elitist.
    State Statutes state that children are required to be educated and transportation be available in order for all students to get to their “local schools” (whether public or private). State statute states a 2 mile distance from school (or unusual hazards), whereas MMSD uses a 1.5 distance to decide on who should get K-5 transportation. All children K-5 have had yellow bus service available to their local schools when there homes have met this qualification. When it wasn’t feasible for a bus to transfer the student, then reimbursement has to be offered.
    Where some parents get upset is there is a “city option” in the Statute, which MMSD has been using since at least the 60’s where families who live within the Madison Metro area (city with at least 40,000 and has public transportation available) the district cna use that service and decide what goups of children will be served by this alternative. These families (both public and private school students who attend middle and high school) do get a break on the costs, Madison Metro now charges $1 per ride for kids under 18, or they have the option of purchasing a pass for $125/semester for unlimited rides. So when a family purchases a pass, basically, kids can get to the malls, movie theaters, downtown for free when they use the city transportation and it saves on our ozone. Whether MMSD used Madison Metro or yellow school buses, the district does not have jurisdication over what happens on the bus, and the same children would be on the bus no matter what color the bus is. There have been fights, etc. on both kinds of buses you just hear about the metro bus situations because there are more of those in use to this age group.
    The confusion on this has been some areas outside of the city of Madison, who don’t have public transportation, have yellow bus service to middle school and high schools. Because of this, the state law requires MMSD to use the yellow buses (as would any community that doesn’t have city transportation available as one can see in the smaller communities). I believe the district is reimbursed by the state for this cost.
    Legally, I would think we would want ALL children to have an education, and in order to do this, all children need a way to get to school, what happens on the other side of those school doors is between the family and school.
    There are families who choose private schools for religious reasons. There are also a larger number who have ended up there due to needs (whether academic, social or emotional) not being met. It can be less of a choice and more of a need to change. Maybe academically they where not being challenged. Maybe they were picking a bad group of friends to hang out with. Possibly the child does better is an smaller school. Maybe they were being picked on constantly. Most families do not make quick decisions when chosing this route. It can be painstaking. How can they afford it, what will they lose/gain? Is this the right fit? Rather than point fingers and assume they are all elitests, get to know alternative education families (private school or home school), why did they chose what they did, who are their children, if needs could be met, would they rather be in a public school setting? Some are refinancing loans, giving up family vacations, maxing out credit cards or not putting away money for retirement inorder to give their children an alternative education. Maybe you wouldn’t have done the same thing. The important factor is that these families are trying to do what is best for their families and possibly to try to not add to the drop out rate or even worse, the violence that could happen if their children stayed in an uncomfortable environment.
    When kids are looking at colleges, we tell them to look at size, academics, local environment, interests, experiences, and costs. Why is it wrong when families look at these same factors when they are still in K-12 school and considered elitests? It isn’t an us vs. them but rather we are all trying to get the best education possible for our individual children and as uniquely as they all are, they may not all respond to the same situations the same way and maybe we need to find alternative situations for them.

16. Yes we do need to look at why families have elected to send their children to private schools and the the public schools have not met their needs. I have been AMAZED at the strong voice these families have presented for the busing budget cut of $200,000. All the forums, letter to the editors, BOE meetinging…..just think if those parents were still at MMSD maybe we would not have the lousy School Funding Formula that actually says we have to provide a higher wage/benefit package to our staff annually (80% of our budget but) that surpass the amount allowed to increase our revenue, which means no matter how you slice it we will be in a hole every year and have to cut funds and programs. Those cuts mean parents leave the district, their voice and support go with them. Laura states she will not vote on a referendum and my many friends who send their children to private schools say the same thing, no way would they vote for a referendum. I just wish we had their energy, voice and passion with us to fight the school funding formula because we are fighting every year for 7 – 9 million dollars for things like academics, special education, extra curricular activities, arts, while the private schools have been amazing at fighting this BOE for $200,000. Who would have thought this much energy would have been spent on school BUSING. Marquette neighborhood was very upset to consider busing their children to another school and the private school students fear losing their bus. Gosh I thought we were going to improve the Middle School Math curriculum! Maybe we could start teaching math on the BUS!

17. Rats! In the course of these posts I have been morphed from a referendum supporting parent of public school kids, who really doesn’t care how private school kids get to school, into a private school parent who won’t vote for a referendum unless math is taught on a bus! Yikes!
    All I really wanted to do was point out that Arlene might have considered the effect of her letter on future referendums. A large voter block seems angry over a relatively small amount of money. She could have offered to restore the money in a referendum.
    Peace!

18. Laura I owe you an apology. I scrolled up and read the wrong name on a previous post. I read this post in one sitting….It should have stated Elizabeth stated she would not vote for a referendum, not Laura as I misquoted. Again my error with no excuse but speed in reading…sorry.

19. Quick comment- the Board has not yet voted on going to referendum. This discussion is not scheduled until an August meeting. If we do decide to go to referendum, we then need to come to agreement on what will be included in the referendum. It is too premature to commit to restoring anything in a referendum. This would be a better discussion topic for our August meeting and beyond.

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